AyinBase / Ayin Beis with R' Paltiel,
Nissan 5775
Page
18 of pamphlet –
(At
6th line from top of the page. Line begins: 'ha-hagbalah...'). Page
13 of the book.
For text see below.
Please feel free to
leave comments below or collaborate with us in Slack - for an
invitation to Slack and questions: dailychassidus@gmail.com
We
are discussing keilim/vessels and saying that they come from a
'thickening' of the light.
Vessels/keilim
stand by themselves, yet they represent something of significance.
Everyone
has mind/sechel, that originates at an undefinable level. At a lower
level it becomes defined. It is an error to think that the defined
level is the real mind/sechel. In actuality the undefined level is
the real human being.
Earlier today I met one of Rabbi Paltiel's students at the Mitzvah Tank on Park Avenue in Manhattan, and we began to explore the concept of free will. He suggested I post a question regarding this topic as a comment to one of the blog entries, and I decided to post my question relative to a statement in this post that says "Everyone has mind/sechel, that originates at an undefinable level."
ReplyDeleteMy question is if everyone's mind originates at an undefinable level, and such a level cannot be held to reside in our conscious mind, and if by free will we mean that we are at the conscious level making our decisions without anything that is not in our control, such as an aspect of us about which we are not aware to the extent that we can define it, how can we possibly have a free will?
Also, as evidence supporting my position that we humans do not have a free will, but rather manifest G-D's will, if G-D himself states in various places in the Torah that what happens happens according to His will, how can we as humans do anything other than what G-D has willed that we do?
George, thanks for being in touch and for you clear comments. Sorry for the delay. R' Paltiel has reviewed your question and we plan to be in touch shortly.
DeleteKind regards,
~ Yona
for DailyChassidus.
I actually wrote a reply earlier but made some kind of mistake in publishing it. but no regrets since then I thought of other ppoirnts to be included.
DeleteFirstly it must be recognized that when we speak of free will for human beings, that are in themselves creations, in that, context, the free will must be confined to choices for themselves not choices prior to themselves. in other words they don't have the choice to be or not to be they have the choice of what to do with their being. Similarly, they ldon't have the choice to be some creatures other then a human being they can chose how they exercise they privileges and capabilities I can elaborate on this on this but don't see the necessity for any greater clarification. It is also qjuite obvious that being "confined" to the a specie is not an infringement on free will since that free will is by definition referring to free choice within the ;parameters of reality.For eaxampe we Wdont have the freedom to render day into night nor night into day. We do however have the free choice to sleep through the day and be awake brought the night.
With this brief introduction the clarification to the dilemma you've presented is quite obvious.
G-d has provided the human being with inspiration and insight way beyond his ability of full comprehension.and as stated in the quote you mention from our class man is not even aware of the origin of his inspiration and insight. But then some of it trickles down to our intellectual recognition. At that point we have full jurisdiction as to what we do with it. An extremely simple example: we may chose to pursue and develop this recognition and build our lives based on its lofty and pure spirit we may also chose to use this insight to intimidate others with lesser clarity
I believe this provides ample basis for a fully developed answer to your question on free will.
The second question: the dilemma of the G-dly prior knowledge is dealt with in the Rambam and as he states that this is beyond human reach although there's much that we can know and understand in this area and it could be quite enriching even if not conclusively explainable.But then clearly this would not be suitable for this forum.
R' Paltiel, thanks for your comments above. George, let us know your thoughts.
DeleteLooking forward.
Yona
for DailyChassidus
R' Paltiel,
ReplyDeleteRegarding choices for themselves and their relation to human will, we need to keep in mind several points;
a. G-D is omnipotent, and nothing can happen that is contrary to His will. To suggest otherwise is to posit an unacceptable logical contradiction. This is as basic a matter of logic as is 2+2=4, and even G-D is bound by His logic in the sense that He cannot over-ride the laws and principles that He has created to govern His world; i.e., G-D cannot choose to cease to exist. This fundamental logic supersedes Torah in that without logic, ALL Torah would be inaccessible to even the most basic interpretation. G-D’s omnipotence cannot be logically reconciled with human free will, and this unassailable conclusion dictates that it must be human free will, rather than G-D’s omnipotence, that must be rejected.
b. You write that Rambam considers the issue of G-D’s omniscience and its implications for human will as beyond our ability to understand. While some aspects of reality, like G-D’s eternal nature, certainly transcend logic, the matter of G-D’s omniscience prohibiting free will does not fall within this category. If a human were to freely decide contrary to what G-D knew from the beginning of time that he would decide, that freely willed decision would render G-D fallible. Again, since G-D is, by definition, infallible, the notion of a freely willed decision must be rejected, as must the self-contradicting assertion that G-D can both know what a human will decide before the decision is made, yet the decision has been made free of G-D’s will.
The Torah teaches that even Adam and Eve were fallible, and so we must opt for the conclusion that Rambam was, in this case, mistaken, rather than concluding that G-D can be fallible, or that his logic is self-contradictory.
c. The strongest refutation of free will, however, comes not from G-D’s omniscience and omnipotence, but rather from the laws He established to govern His world, specifically the law of cause and effect. We understand that everything that happens must have a cause that explains it why it happened, and that, G-D is, most fundamentally, the cause of everything. If we apply this law and principle of causality, wherein everything that happens must have been caused by a prior event, to any human decision, we quickly realize that the chain of cause and effect that regresses behind every human decision must necessarily regress to before the person’s birth. Thus, the decision cannot be said to have been made free of factors – in this case the causal process – that lie outside of the human’s control.
Although G-D himself in Isaiah says that He creates both good and evil, some of us find it difficult to accept that G-D’s will governs every human act, because this conclusion dictates that we must therefore attribute not only the good, but also the evil, that we humans do to G-D. I can certainly appreciate this concern, and it has caused me considerable consternation. However, there is a way, albeit involving an aspect of reality that transcends logic, to absolve G-D of fundamental responsibility for human evil. This absolution is made possible by the recognition that in order to hold G-D fundamentally responsible for an evil human act, we must arrive at a precise moment wherein G-D decided to destine the act. However, because G-D is eternal, and the causal chain behind everything that happens regresses eternally into the past, we can never arrive at the point at which G-D decided to destine a future evil act to happen.
Lastly, there are various instances in Torah where G-D himself declares his sovereignty over His creation. Since the closest we ever get to the concept of free will in Torah are instances where G-D commands us to choose, as with life rather than death, we must therefore conclude that while we do have the power to “choose,” in the colloquial sense, we have never been granted the power to choose free from the dictate of factors, most fundamentally G-D’s will, that lie beyond our control.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, the sovereignty of G-D, and hence the non-existence of human free will, is not foreign to Judaism. In fact, the Essenes maintained this view:
ReplyDelete"A second group, which Josephus calls the Essenes, frequently associated with the authors of some of the Death Sea Scrolls, maintained almost the total opposite of Sadducean teaching. At least regarding free will and fate. They claimed that everything was preordained by God. Man really has no choice or free will to act as he wishes."
http://jewishbeliefs.blogspot.com/2009/04/fate-and-free-will-in-judaism-pharisee.html